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A Note From Steve
Shultz: |
 Dear
Elijah List Readers,
This may be one of the most important "articles" to forward we have ever published.
The thing is, while thousands watched (and are now watching) Bishop Harry Jackson
talk to me on camera (on www.prophetic.TV)
about how he is choosing to vote this time around...AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN...many
are unable to watch only. Harry is a key word, if not "THE KEY" to the African-American
Community.
Never before have I understood so much and at such a deep level that, as White Christians,
many of us do understand "Righteousness" -- yet we don't yet understand "Justice."
Harry Jackson, who laughs as he calls himself the "other Jackson" in the civil rights
movement, has educated me deeply. I told him, "Bishop, as a White Christian I've
always checked my heart to be sure there was no prejudice, discrimination, or unforgiveness
toward the Black Community. When I felt satisfied that my heart was 'more or less'
clean in this area (righteousness), then I consoled myself that I was in a good
place -- at least with God. But Justice is what you DO -- that is, I can pray daily
and live righteously but what I do or do NOT do, has to do with Justice. I have,
therefore, not concerned myself with Justice in the Black Community, and for that
I am very sorry."
Psalm 97:2
2 Clouds and thick darkness surround
him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. (NIV)
But let's start somewhere, and let me start with a simple, "I got it wrong" statement
and apology to the Black Community. Righteousness before God is not good enough
-- though it IS good. Righteousness AND Justice are the foundation of HIS
THRONE, speaking of God's throne, of course.
I have two goals in mind by sending this transcription of my interview (non-edited)
with Bishop Harry Jackson. First, to make sure that those who can't watch the online
video, can read the interview and 2) try to make sure that the Black Community and
the White Christian community begin to understand that WE are beginning to understand
that we need to push for JUSTICE in the Black community to be in right standing
with God...especially as the Church of Jesus Christ.
Proverbs 4:7
7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, get understanding. (NIV)
We have a long way to go but I "see" that the Lord is pleased with our baby steps
-- though we must do much more. This article is longer than normal, but I pray that
it will be worth it for many of you.
I think it will be.
Please forward this article to both your African-American and NON African-American
friends.
And then let's pray that God will show us how to practice justice and not righteousness
alone!
Blessings for Kingdom living! And as usual, let me re-emphasize, we are supporting
neither the Republican nor Democratic candidate. We must, however, do our homework
and choose, based on conscience, the candidate who will most likely act in Righteousness
AND Justice toward the poor.
Blessings,
Steve Shultz THE ELIJAH LIST www.elijahlist.com
PROPHETIC.TV www.prophetic.TV
The "Other Jackson" for
Civil Rights Speaks Prophetically to the Black Community on Who He is Voting
for -- for President
God is Speaking
 Steve:
Welcome again to Prophetic.TV, which is a ministry of Elijah List Ministries; today
we have Bishop Harry Jackson with us.
 Harry,
we've gotten to know each other a great deal over the phone. We've met once before,
and we basically have found that we have a lot in common. To begin with, we operate
on the same prophetic team, and we're both members of what we call ACPE, which stands
for Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders. Basically, what it means is that God
is speaking to the church a lot today.
Harry: Yes.
Steve: You believe God's speaking to the church.
Now you're a pastor, the pastor of a 2000-member church in Washington DC, which
is called...
Harry: Hope Christian Church.
Steve: And do you believe that God is speaking to the church today?
Harry: I do, very definitely. And he's speaking to people who hear is voice.
And it's not just a dead letter, but it's the living word into the culture. And
I guess one of the real exciting things I like about the Elijah List is that many
of the words that you have put on the air...deal with our culture, they deal with
things that are about to happen. I remember the Saddam Hussein capture, for example...what
an incredible thing.
Steve: They had begun to prophesy that he would be found in a hole. In fact,
Kim Clement, who we just finished an interview with a couple of days ago, prophesied
that he would be found in a hole, or taken out of his hole...and there he came.
Harry: Wow!
Steve: So, let me bring this up: Kim Clement is one of the prophets who has
been able to meet with the president - he's able to say just that much publicly
- he has got specific revelation what he believes God said about the next election.
You have revelation about what God is saying about for yourself. In fact, let me
just jump into that...Harry, let's get the controversial stuff out of the way, okay?
Harry: Alright.
What is God
Saying about this Next Election?
Steve: What is it that you feel like God is telling you to do about this
next election?
Harry: Well, Steve, I believe that what I've got to do is vote for George
W. Bush. Now, the reason I'm going to do it, is that I believe that there needs
to be a restoration in our country about both righteousness and justice. We'll talk
more about that, but without a platform of righteousness, we really can't do what
we need to do with the nation. Are you aware that about 1,500 black babies are aborted
every single day?
Steve: No...wow.
Harry: Now, if you look at those numbers, from 1973 13 million African-American
babies have been murdered. And if you think about it, the Planned Parenthood and
those kinds of organizations, were initiated by people who had in their agenda to
absolutely kill off blacks and other inferior people. And so there's a genocide
that's going on, and we can't just let that happen. So my belief is we're going
to have to stop abortion.
We also need to deal with protecting the marriage. So the Lord has spoken to me
to go around the country, trumpet the fact that because of these issues of righteousness
and justice, we must vote for George Bush. I'm not saying that George Bush is absolutely
right in everything, but I believe that there's a starting point of righteousness.
The Black Church
Is Going to Determine This Election
 Harry:
Second thing, Steve, is this: I believe that what we have to deal with, in terms
of black community, is that she is going to, if we can call her "she" - the community,
is going to determine - specifically the black church - is going to determine this
election.
Steve: Now, would this be accurate to say: You're
not saying that you're telling all Christian, black Americans that they should now
become either Republican or Democrat?
Harry: No, no...
Steve: So, in other words, we both believe that as Christians, we're neither
specifically identified as Republicans or Democrats. I use the word "monarch"...we
are monarchists because we serve a reigning King. I think you said we serve in a
theocracy, which means that God is the boss. So how does that enter into ... especially
an African-American in today's society...it's controversial because they're more
or less expected to vote as a block. Would that be a fair...?
Harry: Well, it's true. That's the way it has played itself out. And I think
there is a lot of controversy around who's better, Republicans versus Democrats?
Who's been better to the black people? I think that that's really not a good question
to ask because America, I think, has been marked by how it has dealt with the African-Americans.
I believe Blacks have been a moral compass for the nation since their coming here,
sort of like a lightning rod. And you know the first great awakening began, as we
worded in one of the articles, out of abolitionist-preaching and revival-preaching
kind of tied together.
 Steve:
In fact, you mentioned then in one of these articles that you called the first black
Americans that hit the soil - who came here before the Puritans - you called them
missionaries. Explain that.
Harry: I did. Steve, I believe that they are like the missionaries, meaning
that they were sent here by God. And before they were saved, not knowing they would
come to Christ, but that they would be those with nothing to lose by standing up
and speaking out about what's right. Think about the Civil Rights movement as the
pinnacle of the prophetic commission, if you would, for the Black church in the
20th century. Martin Luther King Jr., standing with a bunch of folks saying, "Hey,
look, we don't care if you send dogs, we don't care if you turn on the water hoses,
we don't care...we're going to stand here for what's right." They believed that
the American population would see these images on TV and see them in the newspapers,
and that their consciences would be touched by the Holy Spirit. So that meant that
they operated, really, as even a prophetic kind of demonstration.
A Destiny in White-Hot Revival!
Steve: Now, you started to say that the first Great
Awakening was when John Wesley came along and said, "We're not going to put up with
this kind of...what? Racism or...?
Harry: Yeah. Well, Wesley was very clear. You know, in England it already
had a great abolitionist movement. But when he came here, he really felt that he
should preach against slavery and preach salvation, and people started listening
to him. He was in the 1740s and literally thousands of blacks came to Christ. Have
you ever wondered why there seemed to be more black Christians in the South? During
those times, the message was more heard by the Southern black, than the northern.
It has to do really with who was preaching, really. But the southern style, if you
will, preaching and presentation...you know, it was more emotional and it was more,
in a sense, uplifting, and it really captured the hearts of blacks.
Steve: Now many people are not even aware that - I think, what was it 1904,
1906 - the Azusa Street revival was an African-American man - Seymour was his name?
 Harry:
William Seymour, yes. Now, you may be aware that he first heard about the Holy Spirit
out in Kansas. I believe it was Topeka. But he was not allowed to get into the regular
meetings. So this man sat outside in a chair listening in, and his one eye is working
and the other wasn't, but the Holy Spirit, who's a great equalizer, moved around
everything that was happening in his day, and he got baptized in the Spirit, and
he wasn't even in the room! And he went back to L.A., and as you recall, many groups
came of different races, and the Assembly of God denomination - the founders of
that denomination - actually were seeing the Holy Spirit there at Azusa Street on
a black man. But over time, you know, there was separation and confusion, and so,
you know, if you think about the Black church also, every original music form that
was birthed in America came out of the black church first, and then into the secular...blues,
jazz, etc...hip-hop...any of those kinds of styles...they have their origin in church.
Steve: That's amazing. So when you say that the Black community became a
lightning rod for revivals...there's proof of that...I mean you can look back and
see that.
Harry: Well, there really is. Now our problem has been that, at times, we
who have been called by God, want to do our own thing, and maybe move into certain
manifestations of rebellion. So the calling, you know, the gifts and callings of
God are without repentance. In other words, if we're right with God, God will use
us for that purpose as long as He intends to do so. So, my call to Black America,
and as you know will be on CBS evening news Sunday night...one little piece...also
CBN has done some things. The Washington Post is now talking with us about some
articles. We had something in the Washington Times. The message is going out. I
had a call even from Christianity Today,
which is the opposite of the Elijah List type of thing. (smiling)
Steve: Much more conservative, but that's okay, they're seeking after God.
(smiling)
Harry: Seeking after God. They talked with me about this issue, so my job
is to call African-Americans to say, "Hey guys, you've got a destiny! It's time
for you to return to really living - a white-hot revival type - a dynamic within
the church. And then speaking to the broader community in the name of Christ.
 Steve:
Now, how are you attempting to pull this off when you're being...you said you would
actually even mention it...that some people have used some names against you just
for [saying], "I'm going to vote this time for what seems to be righteousness and
justice." Let's talk about this for second. Why are they calling you these names?
Harry: That's true. They call me Uncle Wiggly, they call me Uncle Tom. (laughing)
Well, I believe...here's the real issue, our people, as African-Americans, sons
and daughters of Africa, have been so oppressed on the shores despite the prosperity
of the nation...you know, it hasn't been that long that lynching stopped in America.
And recently, there's one even this past year I'm told, so what you're dealing with
is a group of people who feel like we deserve basic human rights. And they would
think that, "Okay, here you are...this Harvard-educated, silver-spoon-in-your-mouth
type of dude...what in the world do you know about our suffering?
Steve: Right. And that's true...that's very true because I think that the
Harvard-educated, white American doesn't have a clue. They think they do.
Harry: They think they do, but they really don't.
Righteousness & Justice
Steve: So now, here's President Bush seeking to be
re-elected. And pretty much I believe most Black Christian Americans and White Christian
Americans have seen him as a whole. We know one thing about him. We may not agree
with everything he does, but he is a praying man. That's righteousness. But what
I'm understanding through you, and through your books, is that righteousness is
one thing, but it's got to be righteousness and justice. Explain that.
 Harry:
Well, Steve, you hit the nail on the head...What I mean by justice is...Psalm 89
and Psalm 97 and many other references...talk about righteousness and justice being
the foundation of the throne of God. And essentially for our viewers, it means that
those who are righteous have a responsibility there to reflect the glory of God,
to create an atmosphere of justice on behalf of the needy, the poor, and the least
of these in our society. And whenever those who are righteous do not create that
atmosphere of justice on behalf of God, it's almost like we stop short of our commission
as the church.
 Steve:
Well, and you and I talked on this as well...we said on our couple-hour phone
conversation, I said, you know I think you know as a white American Christian, I
check my heart constantly to make sure that I don't have racism, prejudice, those
types of things in me. We even do reconciliation conferences, Black reconciliation,
Native American - we do these things. And I find myself thinking at times, "Well,
I'm doing a good job. I'm bringing reconciliation." But if that only stops at what
I'm not doing. That is, I'm not hating, I'm not being prejudice, I'm not acting
discriminatory, then that's okay, but that has nothing to do with justice yet. We're
still at righteousness, is that right?
Harry: That's exactly right. Think about it this way: If the throne of God
only has righteousness ending up, and the justice part is broken down, we're not
going to have a beautiful representation of the Lord. Or if it's a stair step, righteousness
is the first step, because without being personally righteous, you can't produce
justice. You can't bring forth a selfless, manifestation of God's goodness, which
is...you know he talks about dealing with the poor, and the widows, those kinds
of things. So in America there are six things I believe, Steve, that are out of
whack in America. There are family issues that need to be dealt with. We talked
about abortion already. We can deal with same-sex marriage.
6 Things that Need to Be
Dealt With in America
Steve: Now before you list these 6 things, are these
out of whack in both parties?
Harry: They are out of whack, in my opinion...
Steve: That's what I thought...okay.
Harry: That's what I have been saying, because even though the Democratic
party, you know, talks about justice at the very end of their platform...a most
beautiful writing about justice. But I don't see it lived out in a way that really
empowers and uplifts people. So the 6 things I see have to do with the family...I'll
list all 6 areas: Wealth creation, dealing with the poor in America...Third area
is education reform. And we'll come back...President Bush is talking about it, but
there are problems there. I would say Sudan
 Relief,
dealing with the crisis in Sudan. We can do something about that. The fifth area
is prison reform. And we know that Jesus said that we are supposed to visit the
prisoners. And the sixth, and finally, is healthcare. As we go through these, I'm
simply saying that there is not enough teeth in the Republican platform, in my view,
though we start with righteousness with President Bush to really change the everyday
lifestyle of the African-Americans. And there are not enough teeth on the other
side, in terms of righteousness, for the Democrats to balance things out, and I
don't think they go far enough either. And I'm going to give you an example about
schools because what they do is they have a - I'm going to call it a philosophical
idea - that government is going to be big, and we're going handle everything from
policy level; the Republicans, by and large, think that you need small government
- and you kind of need a mix.
Let's say this: In America, No Child Left Behind, President Bush's big deal, kind
of falls short in the following area...what about the fifty percent in some cities
of black kids who are going to drop out this year? If they drop out of high school,
they are on their way to becoming statistics, meaning they are either going to get
killed in crime, or wind up in prison, and black males are - very horrifically.
So I don't see an integration of short term and long term...
 Steve:
Let me ask you a question about that. So here we have what we believe to be a righteous
president who wants to be re-elected. He prays certainly, and in one of your messages
you said I hope that he is at least at a heart level, saying this next round I want
to address injustice. What does it look like? What will it look like for a Godly
man who's praying and he's trying to be righteous...what will it look like for him
to reach in and help this area, let's say of the drop out rate...what will he do?
What can he do?
Harry: Well, he can do a lot. But do you see what I'm saying? It's going
to take more than one man to take the Senate and Congress, and it's going to take
all Christians. Here's what he can do: He can continue to push this No Child Left
Behind kind of macro-policy, but we could begin to make sure that there is more
intervention in the "now" around these dropout kids. What happens to them? It's
going to take churches come alongside, because somebody is going to have to say,
"Okay, look...we're going to talk to his family." Maybe he only has a mother at
home, no dad. We have got to reach out to them. Also, there's going to have to be
a local level, school board intervention. We can't expect things to change without
people in black churches. For example, we need people in a predominantly black community,
saying, "I'm running for the school board, and I need some people who are in the
PTA," and going in, talking to the teachers...and, so there needs to be a holistic
approach.
Steve: No more of this thinking about, "Well, we're Christians. We'll stay
in the church and let everyone else run the schools." It's like we need to move
the church into the schools.
Harry: We really do. Because somebody's children are going to stay there;
even if we get vouchers, and all the good Christians with money move out, what happens
is there are enough side needs that you're going to always find, I think, some good
Christian kids who can't get the bus thing or can't get these various other things.
And they're going to be stuck in these schools that are less than up to par. So
I think you need the long term vision of No Child Left Behind; long term vision
of choice in the schools; short term interaction and intervention that makes a difference.
Black churches, in my book, High Impact African-American Churches,
are starting to do some things, but we still have so many problems that you've got
to ask yourself, "If we don't get governmental policy intervention, and if we don't
get a marriage between even churches and businesses where monies are put up, so
that we can begin to work more with after-school programs and tutorial programs...you're
going to find that we're going to lose a generation that might today be 8-12 years
old. George Barna, my co-author of this book, High Impact African-American Churches,
says that at age 12, a child is fully formed in terms of the spiritual dynamic.
So now, after that, you're dealing with trying to...
Steve: Trying to fix or keep in place with something, or whatever is there.
Harry: Exactly. So all I'm saying is that I applaud what the president is
proposing, but there needs to be more intermediate action with Blacks and, I will
add, with Hispanics.
Addressing Homosexuality
Steve: Now, let me ask this: There's a marriage amendment
that has been talked about and the White church is afraid, I believe, to address
very strongly the issues of homosexuality, or even a marriage amendment...they're
afraid to speak out too loudly for fear that they will sound bigoted.
Harry: Oh yeah.
Steve: And yet is there an opportunity there in the African-American church,
who can more successfully speak out for marriage, and against homosexuality, without
having the same charge...is there actually an opportunity, another one of those
lightning rods?
Harry: Well, I think so. I mean, Ken Hutchinson - I gave the opening prayer
at the Mayday for Marriage, and it was an awesome event - and Ken Hutchinson, you
know, is African-American, and he's married to a white lady. He pastors a multi-racial
church, as do I. What a great man he is. I mean, I have great respect for him. And
so he's leading this predominantly white movement, but I agree with you that blacks
have always...we've been open and friendly to gays...we have. Because of this integration
of family and absentee father issues that produce a lot of homosexuality, we've
learned to love, accept, and receive gays, but all the facts show, that blacks are
more against gay marriage than the white community.
Steve: That sounds like a disconnect. Do you have the ability because of
that to now begin to speak out about the sin, while loving the sinner, without having
the same charges leveled against you? Is that a dynamic that exists?
Harry: Absolutely. I mean, what you're saying is so astute, because what
we've been doing is we've said, "Look, we love these people. We accept you, but
we're not going to call what you're doing right." You see, once you say that you
can get married with impunity, it basically will erase the guilt and shame from
sin. And you know we need to make sure that these boundaries are there, so people
understand that they're wrong.
Steve: Well, and as abortion is, and you were talking about 1,500 African-American
families having abortions...
Harry: A day
Steve: A day...and you said in 4 years that adds up to like a...
Harry: 2 million
Steve: Sudan crisis...of 2 million...
Harry: Yeah...exactly.
Steve: If you take the Marriage Amendment, that almost trumps the issue of
abortion...in other words, if we don't go up one level higher and take care of the
marriage issue, you can talk about abortion all day long, but if it's not stopped
up here, it will just trickle down to here. Is that what that would be?
Harry: That's exactly what we're saying. Because what we're seeing at abortion
levels is part of the fruit of the disintegration of the black community, black
family in the community. I love what Dennis Raney said when we were together at
this marriage summit. He said that there needs to be a renewing of covenant of marriage,
and there needs to be churches that give all kinds of seminars and support systems
to prevent divorces. We can't just say we're against homosexuals getting marriage,
and look it how bad it is. What about focusing on the positive side? Strengthening
marriage, and training people how to live in relationships.
"In All That You Get, Get
Understanding"
Steve: Let me ask a fairly controversial question
about the abortion issue.
Harry: And the rest of these have not been... (laughing)
 Steve:
(Laughs) I actually heard an African-American pastor a couple of years ago, I don't
remember...one of the churches I went to....he stood up and he actually repented
publicly....it was one of those where leaders were brought in from all over the
nation...and he actually was on his knees....it was a very humble repentance, where
he said, "I want to repent on behalf of the black community because of slavery,
and because our women were not given choice over their bodies, we often have chosen
to vote for choice over our bodies, and take all the other bad stuff that came along
with it, just because of that one issue." And when I saw that, and I was not aware
of that, that wound, and I thought, you know, I don't think most people, most white
Americans, certainly not White, church-going Americans, understand that there's
a difference in the issue in the African-American mind regarding abortion because
of the deep wound, and maybe the white American...how would you respond?
 Harry:
Well, I think that would be correct. I also think that what you're dealing with,
with some people, is we're weighing out the value of certain sins. I think that
White America is outraged about the church. 62% of mainstream Christians voted for
President Bush if they're regular church-attenders. The White American is outraged
about abortion, is outraged about this marriage issue somewhat...I mean that's where
we're moving...I think that the African-American community, though, feels more wounded
and abused, mistreated...and frankly, some of us are on the verge of being bitter
over how we've been treated. And I think that the man that you saw praying the prayers
and made those statements was right...that there is a clouding of the issue because
of our personal history and the personal pain. It's one thing for me to say I aborted
a baby and I've been forgiven now and go on. It's another thing to say, I still
feel every morning, when I wake up, that racism stares me in the face, in the form
of my boss, in the form of, I know I'm smart, but I have never been able to get
the job that I need to get. Those things so chip away at your self-esteem.
Steve: See, one of the scriptures say: In all I'm getting, get understanding.
And I think what we need to get is understanding of why these deep wounds...in other
words, we want to say this is black and white, and certain things are black and
white issues.
Harry: Yes.
Steve: By that, I mean right or wrong issues, but we don't understand that
the reason somebody fell, the reason somebody went this way, is because of the deep
wounds, so we don't address the deep wound. We just say, "You've got to stop doing
this thing that is wrong." And so I think that is where justice comes in, back to
that again, because justice says, not only is righteousness praying and seeking
God and having relationship...justice is saying I'm going to correct this because
there's been a wound...I need to bring healing to the wound, and this is how we're
going to do it, and this is why I understand why they are hurting, and why they
wake up every morning, having forgiven the night before, they wake up with the same
pain. And that's what I'm seeing prophetically, is that we have to go to a deeper
level. We've only gotten to reconciliation, but we haven't gotten to....whatever
you call it...awakening or restoration or whatever...
Harry: Yeah, and I believe a revival dynamic...what the Lord has shown me...revival
dynamic will be released in the church when we begin to be those who stand in the
place of God saying, you know, what I see is you being offended or abused...I'm
going to reach out and embrace you and I'm going to protect you in the name of God.
That's essentially what justice is all about. When the American church really gets
that mindset more, and we re-double our efforts internally to touch people, but
also re-double our efforts to reach the Islamic world. You know, because there's
injustice...a whole other segment we could do on women's rights...I think when we
begin to represent the heart of our God, God's going to back us like never before.
A harvest like we never could imagine. And the manifestation of the gifts are we
are ministering to people in God's place; I can see the word of knowledge, and the
word of wisdom, and the prophetic anointing rising up on people so that those people
are freed from all kinds of demonic encumbrances and bondages...and that there's
a tangibility to the faith that we profess.
A Swell of Spirituality in the Black Community
Steve: Do you see an insurgence...you've heard that
word a lot, in the negative sense...an insurgency of the spiritual coming into the
black community, even into the political realm where maybe what we have had in the
past, the leaders, were not as...that maybe they started spiritual and then they
went...you know, we talk about certain reverends in the political leadership. Is
that going to change so there is a greater spiritual leadership among us?
Harry: I think so. Let it be known: I am the other Jackson. I am not Jesse
Jackson...and we think very differently. And I think you're right. I think there
has been a ground swell of wonderful spirituality in the black community, but what
has been represented nationally, and what the media would have us to think, is that
everybody thinks like Jesse Jackson, and that's what they would have us to think,
if they have been more liberally oriented - I mean, you know, the big networks.
And, so, I think it's important for us on this end, like you say, that there's been
this group of people, many are baby boomers and younger, who, for a long time that
are rising up and saying, "No, we're going to stand for the word of God." Certain
stats that have come out are that twice as many blacks...we wrote it for you...are
likely to vote for President Bush in this election than before. And I believe that
the black vote will be the tipping point. And post-election, after it's all counted
up, I guarantee you, that one of the elements that kind of makes up the difference,
will be the black vote.
Steve: That's an amazing turnaround. And you think the marriage issue is
probably one of the larger aspects of that...
Harry: I do. See, abortion is more of a stealth issue.
Steve: Yes.
Harry: Because, I think the average African-American says to him or herself,
"Blacks don't abort their babies." We got all these kids born out of wedlock, but
it's really more the older women...when I say older, 20s and 30s, as opposed to
teenage moms...who can't afford to have another child, they got to take care of
the ones they already have. These are sins of convenience, and sins of desperation.
High Impact African-American Churches
Steve: And this is what I'm talking about, getting
understanding, where we need to get understanding of what's going on. We just have
a couple minutes. Talk to me about this book High Impact
African-American Churches; and I want you to talk about your other book
too.
Harry: Sure...this one is really easy. I'd summarize it this way: High impact
churches, this is the title, High Impact African- American
Churches, it's really for any intercessor, if you want to understand what is
going on in black community. I need you to pray for the black church, the multi-racial
church, but you need to understand what you're praying about. There's history, data
here, and contemporary stats, but it talks about high-impact churches who produce
high-impact leaders, who have high-impact congregations, and they're changing their
communities. If you read the portraits of churches in the back, it'll blow your
mind! And I don't have time to go into it a lot, but there's a church, for example,
in Maryland, that has a wonderful pastor that does these huge plays. And at the
plays, standing room only, 2,700-3,000 African-American kids are trying to get in;
you know, baggy pants pulled down, hip-hop generation folk - and he's preaching
the gospel, and getting hundreds of people saved. There are economic development
corporations that are running 25-30 million dollars a year in economic development
monies.
Steve: Through the church? That's amazing!
 Harry:
Yeah...Through the churches...These churches are doing community transformation
on a level that's far beyond what's been done in the white church. So, if you're
a white church leader, you need this book. If you're a white intercessor, you need
this book. If you're a black person, you need to hear the history. I debated about
the title of this book with our publisher, because we said, "Look, somebody's going
to read this and say, 'Well, I don't know if I need to know about the black church.'"
But if we are the best of the best in the black community, a prophetic voice to
the rest of the church, this data needs to be heard.
Steve: Well, and there are more mega churches in the black community than
the other churches.
Harry: Yes, exactly...that is correct.
The Inner Life of the Warrior
- The High-Impact Christian
 Steve:
Now, talk to me about this other book.
Harry: Now, this one, The Warrior's Heart,
is really close to my heart. And the subtitle is "Rules of Engagement for the
Spiritual War Zone." Dutch Sheets, my dear friend,
did the foreword of the book. Now this also is about high-impact. But this is the
personal version of the corporate version there. Now this is not about Blacks. It's
got 3 different
 dimensions.
It talks about the inner life of the warrior, the person who wants to be that high-impact
Christian; it then talks about how to steward the relationship that he has. And
that's so important, that we all have divine appointments. That you and I have begun,
what I believe is a growing, warm friendship, but what we'll have to do is make
sure that we do the right thing to allow the relationship to continue. Many Christians
say, God called me to this place, and 6 months later they want to quit the job.
Steve: That's right.
Harry: And then the final thing is corporate anointing. Real quick story
- I'm going fast. There's a man in my church. Awesome man. He happens to be a white,
young gentleman. He wanted to be a pastor. And so he's very prophetic, anointed.
We had an opening at a church - we were late to give oversight to him. He went to
 this
church. Six months later we had to bring him home because it was just a mess. And
he is in there prophesying and proclaiming and the folk were not ready for such
an intense pastor. And he came over and he said, "I'm called to the marketplace."
So when he got back, we encouraged him to take up his old job. Here's what happened.
Our church has an anointing in the areas of prophecy and prayer. He goes to work
for his old company. But now he's saying, "Lord, use me on this job prophetically."
He begins to spy out problems in the job, fix things, troubleshoot...within the
first 3 years, his salary quadrupled.
Steve: Goodness gracious.
Harry: And so now he's in a place where he's running a 60-million-dollar-a-year
branch at this business, because he let the prophetic anointing flow, but it didn't
flow just in the church. So he's a warrior.
Steve: See, there you go. One day we'll do another interview on this because
of what God is doing prophetically in the marketplace is astounding. Just like what
you're telling me. The stories are getting better and better outside the four walls
of the church, aren't they?
Harry: They really are, you know, but that's what we're supposed to do, Steve.
Aren't we supposed to equip the saints so that they go forth and do their ministry
prayerfully outside the walls of the church?
Steve: That's good. Harry...Bishop...
Harry: Sir.
Steve: Bless you. I thank you so much. I know that it's taking bravery, a
certain amount of guts to do some of the things you're doing, but I bless you. I
just thank you on behalf of the Lord, on behalf of the church, that you're speaking
it for righteousness and helping us to understand justice. So, let's do this again.
Harry: We will Steve, and thank you so much for the opportunity. It has been
a blessing.
 Steve
Shultz
THE ELIJAH LIST, www.elijahlist.com
PROPHETIC.TV, www.prophetic.tv
 Bishop
Harry Jackson, Jr.
THE HOPE CONNECTION
Web: www.thehopeconnection.org
Email:
info@thehopeconnection.org
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|
"Dutch
Sheets and Will Ford form a powerful writing team. Their model of white and
black is by itself a reconciliation statement. It is for all you whose heart
desires to heal your nations and bring them back to God. History Makers will
grip your heart and catapult you into making history rather than talking about
it." - Cindy Jacobs, Author, The Voice of God, Generals of
Intercession
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